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	<title>Comments on: When scooters are outlawed&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/</link>
	<description>mindfulness in the face of a challenge</description>
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		<title>By: Marshall</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-1128</link>
		<dc:creator>Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-1128</guid>
		<description>Just came across this string and found this on website. It from Alameda Municipal Code Chapter 11 section 4.2 (11-4.2)

This is the URL

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SrLOXfDz3SsJ:johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/+city+of+alameda+ca+ordinances+%2223-1.3%22&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=4&amp;gl=us

This is the full text as of 10/22/08 from the above link

11-4.2 Riding on Sidewalk.
Bicycles may be ridden on the sidewalk, except such sidewalks that pass directly in front of or adjacent to any stores, schools, or other buildings used for business purposes during the hours that such establishment is open for business.
a. Whenever any person is riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk, such person shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.
b. It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle in any pedestrian crosswalk at a signal controlled intersection, adjacent to any school, or one which is under the control of the school crossing guard. At all other intersections the bicyclist shall exercise due caution before entering onto the roadway. (Ord. No. 535 N.S. § 7-332; Ord. No. 1665 N.S.; Ord. No. 1713 N.S.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just came across this string and found this on website. It from Alameda Municipal Code Chapter 11 section 4.2 (11-4.2)</p>
<p>This is the URL</p>
<p><a href="http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SrLOXfDz3SsJ:johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/+city+of+alameda+ca+ordinances+%2223-1.3%22&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=4&amp;gl=us" rel="nofollow">http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SrLOXfDz3SsJ:johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/+city+of+alameda+ca+ordinances+%2223-1.3%22&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=4&amp;gl=us</a></p>
<p>This is the full text as of 10/22/08 from the above link</p>
<p>11-4.2 Riding on Sidewalk.<br />
Bicycles may be ridden on the sidewalk, except such sidewalks that pass directly in front of or adjacent to any stores, schools, or other buildings used for business purposes during the hours that such establishment is open for business.<br />
a. Whenever any person is riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk, such person shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.<br />
b. It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle in any pedestrian crosswalk at a signal controlled intersection, adjacent to any school, or one which is under the control of the school crossing guard. At all other intersections the bicyclist shall exercise due caution before entering onto the roadway. (Ord. No. 535 N.S. § 7-332; Ord. No. 1665 N.S.; Ord. No. 1713 N.S.)</p>
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		<title>By: Christiaan</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-874</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-874</guid>
		<description>An email I received from a City Council member clarifying the code....
&quot;Dear Mr. Havelaar 
 
The ordinace only places bans on parking facilities. 
 
Parks are still legal for riding unless posted. 
 
Thanks 
 
Frank M.atarrese &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An email I received from a City Council member clarifying the code&#8230;.<br />
&#8220;Dear Mr. Havelaar </p>
<p>The ordinace only places bans on parking facilities. </p>
<p>Parks are still legal for riding unless posted. </p>
<p>Thanks </p>
<p>Frank M.atarrese &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Krueger</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-869</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Krueger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-869</guid>
		<description>This whole escapade seems like a classic example of a solution in search of a problem.

Really, how did we go from complaints about skateboarders in the parking garage to banning all human-powered vehicles in parks?  Although I think the proposed Municipal Code changes were an overreaction, at least there were documented complaints about skateboarding in the garage.  Where is the evidence that bikes, scooters, and other such vehicles are causing problems in our parks?  How many complaints have been received?  How many accidents have been reported?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole escapade seems like a classic example of a solution in search of a problem.</p>
<p>Really, how did we go from complaints about skateboarders in the parking garage to banning all human-powered vehicles in parks?  Although I think the proposed Municipal Code changes were an overreaction, at least there were documented complaints about skateboarding in the garage.  Where is the evidence that bikes, scooters, and other such vehicles are causing problems in our parks?  How many complaints have been received?  How many accidents have been reported?</p>
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		<title>By: AD</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-868</link>
		<dc:creator>AD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-868</guid>
		<description>So let me get this straight: If it is unlawful unless posted, where no sign is posted, everybody will be breaking the law (since they reasonably assume bike/scooter/skateboard riding IS allowed in parks). Without sign, I can see so many people questioning the park guy who tries to tell them they are breaking the law, that soon the city will be compelled to post a sign saying exactly what the sign in your park says right now, &quot;No bikes allowed.&quot; 

If a particular location is an exception to the rule however, it will require a new sign to replace the current sign that says &quot;No bikes allowed&quot; with one that says &quot;Bikes allowed.&quot; But that would be unnecessary since most people already assume that to be the case! Or will we then need two signs, one that states that bikes are not allowed and one that states the exception? That&#039;s adding more visual clutter, no?

I can imagine the number of people who will be confused by all the conflicting signs, and I feel sorry for the poor park workers trying to explain this lack of logic, let alone enforce it. Since I don&#039;t have a license plate on my bike, short of arresting me, how is anyone going to write me a ticket?

The ultimate question is, what is the goal the Mayor (and council) is trying to achieve? Safety, more revenue, less visual clutter? If they can state clearly what they want achieved, someone who is not lost in Wonderland can probably come up with the proper solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So let me get this straight: If it is unlawful unless posted, where no sign is posted, everybody will be breaking the law (since they reasonably assume bike/scooter/skateboard riding IS allowed in parks). Without sign, I can see so many people questioning the park guy who tries to tell them they are breaking the law, that soon the city will be compelled to post a sign saying exactly what the sign in your park says right now, &#8220;No bikes allowed.&#8221; </p>
<p>If a particular location is an exception to the rule however, it will require a new sign to replace the current sign that says &#8220;No bikes allowed&#8221; with one that says &#8220;Bikes allowed.&#8221; But that would be unnecessary since most people already assume that to be the case! Or will we then need two signs, one that states that bikes are not allowed and one that states the exception? That&#8217;s adding more visual clutter, no?</p>
<p>I can imagine the number of people who will be confused by all the conflicting signs, and I feel sorry for the poor park workers trying to explain this lack of logic, let alone enforce it. Since I don&#8217;t have a license plate on my bike, short of arresting me, how is anyone going to write me a ticket?</p>
<p>The ultimate question is, what is the goal the Mayor (and council) is trying to achieve? Safety, more revenue, less visual clutter? If they can state clearly what they want achieved, someone who is not lost in Wonderland can probably come up with the proper solution.</p>
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		<title>By: John Knox White</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-862</link>
		<dc:creator>John Knox White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-862</guid>
		<description>Tthe proposed change is a reversal of the &quot;It shall be unlawful when and where posted&quot; to essentially (i&#039;m not directly transcribing here) &quot;It shall be unlawful unless posted....&quot; as well as an addition of parking lots, garages and public buildings to the list of places bikes and skateboards may not be used, with an exception for bicycling to a bike rack located in a lot or garage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tthe proposed change is a reversal of the &#8220;It shall be unlawful when and where posted&#8221; to essentially (i&#8217;m not directly transcribing here) &#8220;It shall be unlawful unless posted&#8230;.&#8221; as well as an addition of parking lots, garages and public buildings to the list of places bikes and skateboards may not be used, with an exception for bicycling to a bike rack located in a lot or garage.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-861</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-861</guid>
		<description>Seems to me, a 63 year old grandfather, it will now be a crime for me to pull my grandkids onto park grounds in their wagon.  Their red coaster wagon is a &quot;muscular powered vehicle&quot; and see no exception in the council proposal for &quot;toys&quot; as mentioned in an above comment. If ia wagon is a &quot;toy&quot;, isn&#039;t a skateboard also a &quot;toy&quot;?

AMC 23-1.3 Riding of Bicycles and Skateboards in Parks, looks to me to only apply to &quot;bicycle, or skateboard, propelled wholly or in part by muscular power,&quot; and does not mention the catch-all &quot;and ALL muscular powered vehicles from all city parks&quot; as stated in the council proposal.  

I wonder if my grandkids will also be arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a grandparent if they knowingly allow me to pull them in their wagon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me, a 63 year old grandfather, it will now be a crime for me to pull my grandkids onto park grounds in their wagon.  Their red coaster wagon is a &#8220;muscular powered vehicle&#8221; and see no exception in the council proposal for &#8220;toys&#8221; as mentioned in an above comment. If ia wagon is a &#8220;toy&#8221;, isn&#8217;t a skateboard also a &#8220;toy&#8221;?</p>
<p>AMC 23-1.3 Riding of Bicycles and Skateboards in Parks, looks to me to only apply to &#8220;bicycle, or skateboard, propelled wholly or in part by muscular power,&#8221; and does not mention the catch-all &#8220;and ALL muscular powered vehicles from all city parks&#8221; as stated in the council proposal.  </p>
<p>I wonder if my grandkids will also be arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a grandparent if they knowingly allow me to pull them in their wagon?</p>
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		<title>By: AD</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-859</link>
		<dc:creator>AD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-859</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the existing language on muscle-powered vehicles from the AMC:

23-1.3 Riding of Bicycles and Skateboards in Parks, Etc.
It shall be unlawful when and where posted for any person to operate or ride a bicycle, or skateboard, propelled wholly or in part by muscular power, in or upon any public park, playground or school property in the City.
The use and operation of skateboards, roller skates, and in-line skates shall be authorized at the Skate Park, at Alameda Point. All persons using, operating, or riding a skateboard, roller skates, or in-line skates at the Skate Park, at Alameda Point, shall wear a helmet, elbow pads, and knee pads at all times. (Ord. No. 743 N.S.; Ord. No. 2439 N.S. § 1; Ord. No. 2798 N.S. § 1)

What is the proposed change?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the existing language on muscle-powered vehicles from the AMC:</p>
<p>23-1.3 Riding of Bicycles and Skateboards in Parks, Etc.<br />
It shall be unlawful when and where posted for any person to operate or ride a bicycle, or skateboard, propelled wholly or in part by muscular power, in or upon any public park, playground or school property in the City.<br />
The use and operation of skateboards, roller skates, and in-line skates shall be authorized at the Skate Park, at Alameda Point. All persons using, operating, or riding a skateboard, roller skates, or in-line skates at the Skate Park, at Alameda Point, shall wear a helmet, elbow pads, and knee pads at all times. (Ord. No. 743 N.S.; Ord. No. 2439 N.S. § 1; Ord. No. 2798 N.S. § 1)</p>
<p>What is the proposed change?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Spangler</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-858</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Spangler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-858</guid>
		<description>Good grief, Charlie Brown!  :-(

Banning muscle-powered vehicles does seem to include strollers and baby joggers, so I would think that a major uproar from the pram-pushing set might be easily generated. This move produces, shall I say, &quot;shock and awe.&quot; It should be reversed, and may well be, if sound arguments against hasty action cn be presented and the issue referred to the venerable TC and Rec &amp; Parks Commission for further study....

JKW, your instincts may well be correct on the possible violations of the Brown Act, which Our Fair City&#039;s leaders normally honor very carefully.

You are correct, also, on the need for a second reading on any changes in the municipal code. 

Thank God it&#039;s not too late to stop this &quot;hasty&quot; action...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good grief, Charlie Brown!  <img src='http://johnknoxwhite.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Banning muscle-powered vehicles does seem to include strollers and baby joggers, so I would think that a major uproar from the pram-pushing set might be easily generated. This move produces, shall I say, &#8220;shock and awe.&#8221; It should be reversed, and may well be, if sound arguments against hasty action cn be presented and the issue referred to the venerable TC and Rec &amp; Parks Commission for further study&#8230;.</p>
<p>JKW, your instincts may well be correct on the possible violations of the Brown Act, which Our Fair City&#8217;s leaders normally honor very carefully.</p>
<p>You are correct, also, on the need for a second reading on any changes in the municipal code. </p>
<p>Thank God it&#8217;s not too late to stop this &#8220;hasty&#8221; action&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Knox White</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-857</link>
		<dc:creator>John Knox White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 04:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-857</guid>
		<description>I fear I accidentally ventured into hyperbole when I mentioned Trikes. (sorry!)

&quot;Toys&quot; which wagons and trikes, and possibly even scooters (though they were singled out during the council discussion) are governed by separate rules and would not be affected by this proposal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fear I accidentally ventured into hyperbole when I mentioned Trikes. (sorry!)</p>
<p>&#8220;Toys&#8221; which wagons and trikes, and possibly even scooters (though they were singled out during the council discussion) are governed by separate rules and would not be affected by this proposal.</p>
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		<title>By: whitney</title>
		<link>http://johnknoxwhite.com/2008/06/17/when-scooters-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comment-856</link>
		<dc:creator>whitney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 03:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnknoxwhite.com/?p=378#comment-856</guid>
		<description>So is what Shauna said true? Would a stroller be considered a muscular powered vehicle? What about red wagons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is what Shauna said true? Would a stroller be considered a muscular powered vehicle? What about red wagons?</p>
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